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This is an email thread that was started by someone I don't know named Ryan Ehlis...

If you choose to have a discussion like this with me... beware. I might take it seriously ;-)

----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Ehlis To: maxbishop@gowebway.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:35 AM Subject: Jesus

IF YOU DIE TODAY WILL YOU GO TO HEAVEN

What I am trying to say is do you know Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior? If you do not the Bible says you have no chance of getting into Heaven. The only alternative to living in Heaven with the Lord Jesus is an eternity in Hell. Hell is an experience, a horror that is beyond description. It is a place of continuous torture and torment. The worst thing is that you will never die in Hell. Actually you will beg for death to end the unbearable suffering, but no one ever dies in Hell, you will be tormented for all eternity and their will never be any relief.

Never a cool drink of water.

Never a cool breeze of air.

Never a moment of relief from the torment.

Worst of all you will never die even though above all else you will desire sweet death to end the torture satan is putting you through.

How do I know this you ask?

Because I have been there. God allowed me to go there and return so I can tell you it is real. I promise you it is real! The devil tortured me without mercy. I was paralyzed and I was dying and all I could feel was pain then I could see who was torturing me. The devil was absolutely focused on his only pursuit, to torture me and he liked making me suffer.

Why do people go to Hell if God loves us you ask?

Because we are guilty of sin. God is totally just and sin must be punished.

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

How can I be saved from this eternity in Hell you ask?

Confess to the Lord Jesus, the Christ, that you are a sinner (repent) and ask him to come into your heart and forgive you of your sin. Don’t worry how great or how many sins you have, Jesus loves you and he wants desperately to save you. God loves us so much that he sent his only son Jesus to willingly die for us so that we could be saved. Jesus was totally innocent but he literally became guilty of our sin and paid the debt for us, a debt we could not pay. He shed his precious blood for us. Even as he was being crucified, Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” (Luke 23:34). When Jesus said this he was talking about you and me because it was our sins that crucified Jesus. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

Jesus said

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16)

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)

“I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” (John 3:3)

You see there is nothing we can do to save ourselves only Jesus can save us. Most assuredly, I say to you he who hears my word and believes in him who sent me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If you are already saved make copies and pass this message on to other unsaved souls

Check out www.pytlik.com/observe/deliverus/signature.html This sight shows how “modern science” is finally starting to catch up with the Bible and prove that it is true and inspired by God.

----- Original Message ----- From: Max Bishop To: Ryan Ehlis Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:09 AM Subject: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Ryan,

I appreciate your concern about my future.

I really would like to live forever but the Bible seems to contain as much about God's cruelty as it does about His benevolence. If I have been reading my Bible correctly, I believe that Satan is not portrayed as as Hell's creator or torturer but is instead cast there and made to suffer in God's instrument of eternal damnation just like the rest of us infidels. I have attached some essays and lists of passages that discuss what the Bible says about Satan and Hell. Please be so kind as to read them and tell me what you think.

On the other hand, I have also been searching the Bible for a description of Heaven to discover whether or not it would be better than the wonderful life I have here on earth. I have yet to find anything in the Bible about Heaven that comes close to what I know can exist here on earth.

Again, thank you for your consideration of my future and, although I suspect most Christians consider it an act of kindness, especially for your threat that I will end up in Hell.

Max Bishop

----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Ehlis To: Max Bishop Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Check out Revelation 7:15-17, 2 Corinthians 12:1-4, Hebrews 12:22, Revelation 21:1-4, Revelation 22:1-5. I know their is a scripture that says man has not even imagined what the treasures of heaven is. It is beyond our grandest dreams. Also the man that gains the whole world and looses his soul is a fool compared to the least in the Kingdome of God. The only way to enter into the Kingdome of God is through the cross. Their is nothing we can do to earn our way into heavin. Jesus bought our way in. The debt was way to large for any man to pay.

----- Original Message ----- From: Max Bishop To: Ryan Ehlis Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Ryan,

OK, I've read the Revelation, Chapter 7 passages and don't see there where it describes heaven.

7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

It does say that I may have to serve God day and night in his temple. Although I don't mind helping out every now and then, I really don't want to serve anyone day and night. Sounds like a heck of a deal for God and a lousy deal for me.

7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Also, right now, when I'm hungry, I eat and when I'm thirsty, I drink so I don't see any improvement there. I also like the sun a lot and like to be warm so I can't see giving that up as being a good thing either.

7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

In addition, I have occasionally shed a tear at a touching scene in a movie but tissues seem to take care of that problem and I get over it after the movie's over. I don't think I need God's help there either.

2 Corinthians, doesn't seem to tell me much either.

2 Corinthians, Chapter 12

12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Why is there a third Heaven and is there a difference between Heavens one, two and three? Is paradise different from Heaven and why do you suppose there are unlawful, unspeakable words there?

In Hebrews, I suppose that if Jerusalem becomes heavenly, it would be a significant improvement over what exists today but I think, for now, I will just avoid going there.

Hebrews, Chapter 12

12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

By the way, why do you think that the innumerable angels were or are unable to do anything about that situation?

Revelation 21 kind of confuses the issue further.

Revelation, Chapter 21

21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If heaven is such a perfect place, why does it pass away? And why take away the sea? I think that the sea a pretty neat place. I've also been curious for a long time about the mention in Revelation of a "war in heaven". How can it be a good place for me to go if the angels fight wars there?

In 21:4, if we ignore the concept of suffering in Hell for the billions of past and future unbelievers, no more death or sorrow or crying or pain would be a good thing. But why wait? Why not just get it over with now (or why not years ago for that matter)? It also sounds like the author of Revelation is talking about the new earth and not necessarily just the new heaven. Do believers go to the new earth or the new heaven?

Revelation 22 sounds more like a metaphor for something rather than a description of Heaven but I'll have to read more and think about it for a while before I can come to any conclusions.

Revelation, Chapter 22

22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

I'm afraid, from the passages that you gave to me, that Heaven seems even less attractive than it was before, especially with the serving God night and day part. I really enjoy my free time and would hate to give up any more than I have now.

I have attached a file that I think lists all of the mentions of Heaven in the Bible. Perhaps you can use it to find the scripture that will tell me about the treasures in Heaven that no one can imagine. Personally, I really don't need much more than I have now but maybe God will help pay for the parts I need on the airplane I am building (my second, the first is flying great) or for the new laptop that I like.

By the way, it seems to me that you won't win a lot of friends by calling them fools and, as a Christian, it probably isn't too good for your immortal health either. Didn't Jesus say the following?

Matthew 5:22: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, "You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, "You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Anyway, since you haven't answered most of the questions I asked and probably haven't had time to read the attachments that I sent, I eagerly await your next reply.

Thanks again for your interest in my welfare.

Max Bishop

----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Ehlis To: Max Bishop Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

OK you know the bible well and that does not surprise me. I have run into a lot of people who know the words in the bible but they do not know the one who wrote it. I became born again before I started studying the Bible so when I started reading the Holy Spirit revealed the truth and meaning behind those words. Only true believers can understand what the Bible means.

Tell me this, where do you want to go after this short life. When you go to sleep for the last time where do you want to wake up?

----- Original Message ----- From: Max Bishop To: Ryan Ehlis Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 11:21 PM Subject: Re: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Hello again,

I can see by your response that you can't or won't answer my questions. Knowing the Bible as well as I do, I understand how difficult it is for you to do that. And yes, I do know the words of the Bible and I probably also know better than you who the authors might have been. If you are as interested to know as much about God and Christianity as I [do], there is a great deal of Bible knowledge and history available at any library and on the Internet if you're willing to look. In a very short time, you could know as much or more than me. Ironically, much of the information contrary to your point of view that I have gathered is from many Christian sources like the one you included in your original letter. I would also encourage you to read and study your Bible, especially the Old Testament. It is the best place I know to learn the true nature of God.

It is easy to answer your question about where I want to go after this short life. It is not so much where I want to go but where I will go. I will die. Nothing more, nothing less. I will not wake up again.

Hopefully, when I die, I will have been good enough that if I precede the people who like and love me, I will go on in their memories. That is all I can ask. That is the way that I feel about a friend that I recently lost to cancer at age 44. I think of him often and will always remember him.

Is that sad? Perhaps, but knowing that I have a limited time gives me the incentive to be as good and kind and friendly as I can be and otherwise make the most of the time I have.

There is a lot more that I could tell you about what I think and how I feel about God and the Bible and about life and death but, based on what you've said so far, it is quite probable that your only interest in me is my conversion to your point of view.

Again, thanks for your concern,

Max Bishop,

By the way, I am happy to continue this conversation but, if you don't mind my asking, who are you and why did you contact me in the first place?

----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Ehlis To: maxbishop@gowebway.com

I am just one of many Christians actively sharing my faith with other people. I find E-mail addresses on different web sights and tell people about how much God loves them and that his son died for them. As far as your friend who passed away, I can guarantee you that if he would be allowed to speak to you he would tell you that it is real, both heaven and hell and we spend eternity somewhere. You believing that their is nothing beyond this life is a lie. You have been deceived. It is not that I can't flip through my Bibles and answer your questions it is a matter of you believing and having faith in God and his word and his promises. I could argue the finer points of different scriptures all day but if you think it is nothing but a bunch of nonsense poetry then their is not much point. I am most interested in the spiritual aspects of God's word. I spend more time in prayer than I do reading the bible although it is very important to spend time cleansing the mind with scripture. I like to read books about what God is doing today in peoples lives. Books written by different ministers, pastors, and about martyrs lives like Cassie Bernall (I have a book her mom wrote Wright hear at my desk). Some day I will meet her and I will be able to tell her how much her courage inspired me. I love going to church to worship my Lord and the Holy Spirit fills the church, my God is so wonderful I half to tell others about him. How do you explain miracles of healing like blind eyes opening, cancer disappearing, and the lame walking. How about the baptism in the Holy spirit and the gifts that follow like speaking in various tongues and interpretation of tongues, prophecy, driving out demons. How about when the Holy Spirit has spoken to me or when I am in prayer and I am given visions. These sings and wonders leave you without excuse. Watch some of the Benny Hinn crusades on TV and see the miracles power of Jesus. He is alive. The spirit of the resurrected Christ is alive in me. I personally have experience a miracle healing from the lord and it is an amazing experience. You can't explain away Psalm 22:1,8,16,18. This was written about 1000 yrs B.C.

Isaiah 53:(all) This book was written about 700 yrs B.C. This Old Testament scripture reveal Jesus Christ to such an extent no wise person could deny it.

----- Original Message ----- From: Max Bishop To: Ryan Ehlis Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 10:34 PM Subject: Regarding: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Dear Ryan,

You said:

Well, this doesn't tell me much about who you are but, I suppose it's a start.

As far as your friend who passed away, I can guarantee you that if he would be allowed to speak to you he would tell you that it is real, both heaven and hell and we spend eternity somewhere.

We both know that my dead friend, a devout Catholic, by the way, can't speak to me so I am curious as to how you can back up such a guarantee. My guarantee that you will never see Jesus is most likely just as valid (or just as worthless, depending on your point of view).

You believing that their is nothing beyond this life is a lie. You have been deceived.

OK, first you threaten me with Hell, then you call me a fool and now you're calling me a liar. You sure know how to win friends and influence people! Does this conversion technique actually work for you?

My belief that there is nothing beyond death is as much the truth to me as your disbelief is to you. And, I don't think that anyone has deceived me because I came to that conclusion pretty much on my own.

It is not that I can't flip through my Bibles and answer your questions it is a matter of you believing and having faith in God and his word and his promises. I could argue the finer points of different scriptures all day but if you think it is nothing but a bunch of nonsense poetry then their is not much point.

The fact is that you can't flip through your Bibles and answer my questions. The answers would be much more confusing for you than for me and would make it much more difficult for you to explain your faith. Another problem is that you don't seem to recognize the Catch 22 schizophrenia of believing before you can understand rather than understanding before you can believe. No, I'm not calling you crazy, you are probably very normal, it's just the concept that is crazy. A real "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" problem!

And no, I don't think that scripture is a bunch of nonsense poetry. Taken in context, scripture provides lots of good insight into Hebrew, Jewish and Greek culture and why they believed and acted the way they did. You are welcome to argue the finer points but I just think you might be afraid to do it with someone who is as interested in it as I am.

I am most interested in the spiritual aspects of God's word. I spend more time in prayer than I do reading the bible although it is very important to spend time cleansing the mind with scripture. I like to read books about what God is doing today in peoples lives.

Avoiding the Bible and concentrating on prayer instead is probably the very best way to maintain your faith. Many of the most faithful are Cafeteria Christians who pick and choose only the scriptures that suit them and find it easier to get by if they avoid (like the plague) those passages that might test their convictions.

Books written by different ministers, pastors, and about martyrs lives like Cassie Bernall (I have a book her mom wrote Wright hear at my desk). Some day I will meet her and I will be able to tell her how much her courage inspired me.

Here is some information about the Cassie Bernall story that you might not (or might not want) to be aware of:

Cassie Bernall, hailed as a martyr in the Columbine High School massacre for professing her belief in God before she was shot dead, may never have had such an exchange with her killer," opened the September 25 Los Angeles Times (Home Edition, A:15). Yet the story of her suicidal confession has led to a revival among Christian teenagers, according to the Denver Rocky Mountain News (September 10, 1999, 4A), with prayer clubs growing in numbers and members all across the state and the country. She Said Yes: the Unlikely Martyrdom of Cassie Bernall, her mother's account of her own daughter's transformation from a disturbed teen with suicidal and murderous thoughts to a "Good Christian," has sold hundreds of thousands of copies (it sold 200,000 copies in its first two weeks alone).

Nevertheless, the Jefferson County sheriff's department has canvassed the details and found that the story is not likely to have transpired as it is being told, and believed, by Christians everywhere. The only report of her martyrdom in the April 20 massacre at Columbine High School comes from a few students whose accounts conflict in important details, and who were not in fact eye-witnesses of the event (they only claim to have heard the exchange while hiding under a table). And the one surviving eye-witness of Cassie's death--a girl sitting right beside her when she died--gives a decidedly different account of what happened. Furthermore, there is actually a story about another girl which sounds very similar--except the outcome was entirely different: after answering "yes," the killer spared her, although she was already badly wounded and bleeding at the time. She recovered.

The fullest account of the new evidence appears in the Denver Rocky Mountain News (September 24, 1999, 5A). The only eyewitness, Emily Wyant, 16, reports that she and Cassie, 17, were alone, studying together in the back of the library, and that she hid with her under the table when the shooting began. At that point, Cassie began praying out loud. According to Emily, "She was saying, 'Dear God. Dear God. Why is this happening? I just want to go home,'." Emily hushed her, saying "I know. We all want to get out of here." Emily believes that Cassie's loud praying may have drawn the gunman to them (they were, after all, all the way in the back). As the Denver Rocky Mountain News reports, "All of a sudden, [Dylan Klebold] slammed the top of their table, said 'Peekaboo,' and looked under the table at both girls." Emily says he immediately looked at Cassie and shot her, without any words exchanged. Then he turned to Emily, but was suddenly called away by Eric Harris, Klebold's accomplice. As Emily heard him, Harris said to Klebold "Hey, there's a n----- over here."' The two of them then shot to death Isaiah Shoels, a young black teen.

The sheriff's investigators have examined the more popular "martyr" account given by Craig Scott, and found that he had only heard the ''Yes'' comment and "recognized the voice as Cassie Bernall's. He did not actually see the individuals involved," reports the Denver Rocky Mountain News. In fact, when they questioned him about where he heard the voice, Scott pointed to the table where Valeen Schnurr was hiding, not Bernall. Other witnesses report that in fact Schnurr was the one asked if she believed in God and said "yes." She had already been shot multiple times and was also praying out loud, no doubt fearing that she was bleeding to death, when Klebold asked the question. But unlike the story we have been hearing, when he heard Schnurr's answer, he decided not to shoot her, and she lived.

I love going to church to worship my Lord and the Holy Spirit fills the church, my God is so wonderful I half to tell others about him. How do you explain miracles of healing like blind eyes opening, cancer disappearing, and the lame walking.

When was the last time you saw anyone grow a new leg or arm?

How about the baptism in the Holy spirit and the gifts that follow like speaking in various tongues and interpretation of tongues, prophecy, driving out demons. How about when the Holy Spirit has spoken to me or when I am in prayer and I am given visions. These sings and wonders leave you without excuse.

Most of us believe what we want to believe and see what we want to see. Would you believe me if I told you that I have had many conversations with the ghost of Thomas Jefferson? No matter how sincere I might be, I doubt it.

Watch some of the Benny Hinn crusades on TV and see the miracles power of Jesus.

I have cable TV and have watched Benny Hinn on TBN many times. Again, people believe what they want to believe.

He is alive. The spirit of the resurrected Christ is alive in me. I personally have experience a miracle healing from the lord and it is an amazing experience.

Ever hear of self fulfilling prophecy?

You can't explain away Psalm 22:1,8,16,18. This was written about 1000 yrs B.C.

Psalm 22 is easy to explain away but you don't want to hear it from me and wouldn't believe my explanations anyway.

Isaiah 53:(all) This book was written about 700 yrs B.C. This Old Testament scripture reveal Jesus Christ to such an extent no wise person could deny it.

OK, I'm goin' to Hell, I am a fool and a liar and now I'm dumb (...no wise person could deny it.). You silver tongued devil, you. You really, really know how to win friends and influence people. I did read Isaiah 53 though and although I suspect that you're not interested in reading an alternate point of view, the following discussion of Isaiah is taken from the book "Old Testament Life and Literature (1968) by Gerald A. Larue.

Read Chapters. 51:9-54:17
The prophet now calls upon Yahweh to redeem as in the past, beginning his hymn with "Awake, awake" (51:9-11). Yahweh's response is a promise of release, and similar cries "rouse yourself, rouse yourself" (51:17) and "awake, awake" (52:1) are directed toward Jerusalem to encourage the people to rise to the challenge of the new tomorrow.

Within this section is the portrait of the suffering servant, a motif of redemptive suffering drawn from the Akitu rites where the human scapegoat bore the sins of many to bring new purification to the nation (52:13-53:12). In Deutero-Isaiah's use of this concept, the servant suffers and is cut off from the land of the living like the Akitu victim, but unlike the Babylonian scapegoat, the servant is promised that he will witness the fruits of his suffering (53: 10 f.) and will share the booty of the rich and powerful (53:12). Chapter 54 is a comfort hymn contrasting the state of abject misery with the promised good fortune.

THE SERVANT OF YAHWEH

Of all the themes developed by Deutero-Isaiah, the one that has produced the greatest amount of scholarly theorizing is that of the servant of the Lord. In the many passages where the servant is clearly identified as Israel, no problem exists, but when no clear identification is made numerous hypotheses may be developed. The greatest amount of study has been concentrated upon the four servant poems: 42:1-4; 49:1-6; 50:4-9; 52:13-53:12.

Some have argued that the servant is to be understood as an individual, and identifications have included: Moses, King Uzziah, King Josiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel among II Isaiah's predecessors; Jehoiachin, Zerubbabel the descendant of Jehoiachin, Cyrus and the prophet himself among his contemporaries; and in a futuristic sense, a messianic figure, including the Christian designation of Jesus of Nazareth.19 Others have supported a collective interpretation and, in the light of the concept
of corporate personality, such a point of view is feasible. Among the groups suggested are a prophetic order, ideal Israel and a pious remnant.20

Perhaps some clue to the problem can be found by comparing descriptions of the servant in the four poems with references outside of the poems to Israel as the servant. For example:

a. Both are formed in the womb by Yahweh, 49:1, 5; cf. 44:2, 24.
b. Both are chosen by Yahweh, 42:1, cf. 41:8 f.; 43:10; 44:1; etc.
c. Both are sustained by Yahweh, 42:1; cf. 41:10.
d. Both are to be a light to the nations, 49:6; cf. 42:6.
e. In both Yahweh is glorified, 49:3; cf. 44:23.

On the other hand there are differences. Whereas the prophet speaks of rebellious, discouraged Israel (40:27; 41:8-10; 48:4), he finds the anonymous servant to be undismayed and faithful (42:4; 50:5-9). Furthermore, whereas Israel is to be redeemed (43:1-7), the servant is to be the instrument of redemption (49:5).

No single argument for a corporate group or for an individual will satisfy all critics, and therefore, for the purpose of this book, it will be assumed that Deutero-Isaiah, in speaking to his own generation of the servant of Yahweh, had Israel in mind. If the servant poems are not discussed out of context, and it can be assumed that the prophet was unvarying in his references to the servant, then on the basis of identifications of Israel as the servant outside the four poems it should be assumed that the servant in the poems is Israel also. Nor was it unusual for the writers in Israel to personify the group in a single individual, for Abraham and Jacob are sometimes individuals and sometimes symbols of the nation that developed from them. Nor are the varying characteristics of the servant inconsistent with the differing roles of the servant and the changing moods of the prophet. As he viewed his people, he saw attitudes like those encountered by Ezekiel and reflected in Lamentations and Job. As he contemplated the potential of the captives, he moved away from negative evaluation, and as he interpreted their plight. he developed a theology of redemptive suffering. His imagery was drawn from past history, present circumstance, and future hope. Thus the servant could be viewed as the instrument of justice and a light to the nations in the first two poems, and as a sufferer and one whose suffering would redeem in the last two.

It is in the concept of redemptive suffering that the poet-prophet introduces a new theological understanding of the Exile. The event was not a meaningless stroke of ill fortune; nor was it to be understood only as punishment for sin—although he would not argue that point. The meaning went deeper. Israel was the scapegoat for the whole world, just as the poor stumbling sufferer in the Akitu festival was for Babylon. On Israel's head were the sins of the nations, and out of Israel's suffering would come redemption, salvation, a new beginning and a new world.

The future role of the servant was that of Yahweh's prophetic servant, to proclaim and make known the divine will to all peoples, to bring knowledge of Yahweh's will to the world, to introduce the new creation. The triumphant servant would see the fruits of his suffering. The hope is ideal and eschatological; the instrument was to be Israel, the servant of Yahweh.

Take care,

Max

----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Ehlis To: maxbishop@gowebway.com

I have read the bible and I believe every word of it. I certainly do not avoid it. I know it is a priceless gift from our creator and I am not confused by it (it is his living word). Give me just 2 or 3 of these so called scriptures that I will avoid like the plague that you think will be hardest for me to explain/understand. They will only strengthen my faith. Look in the mirror and see that you have arms and legs. God expects that the first ones he gave you are proof enough. Would God honor the martyrdom of Cassie Bernall with a full blown revival if it was a lie? I think not.

I believe in the Big Bang theory. God said Bang! :)

About the speaking to ghosts thing. I would suspect that it is a familiar spirit, that is a demon that has knowledge of who it is trying to represent. Demons often represent themselves as dead loved ones. If you are ever visited by the spirit of a dead person be very suspicious because it is more than likely a demon. But at least you would recognize that the spirit world is real.

I see that you can not explain miracles. How about the miracle healing of that country western singer, I think her name is Naomi Judd. It was the mother who had Hepatitis and was terminally ill and medical science said she would die. She has been healed by God. She no longer has hepatitis and now she tell others about how Jesus healed her. (check it out)

Another school shooting today. This is very sad. I hope that they soon realize they need the 10 commandments and Jesus in school so the devil will go away. Foolish law makers think Gun laws even matter. They wont stop dying tell Jesus goes back to school. Only God can stop the moral decay in the public schools and on college campuses. Evil is in the heart of man and only God can change that. We as a notion must REPENT! I pray that God will use this tragedy for his glory and many will turn to him because of this. Come Holy Spirit and bring revival to the young people of this nation. In Jesus name. AMEN!

BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

----- Original Message ----- From: Max Bishop To: Ryan Ehlis Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Regarding: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Dear Ryan,

You said:

I have read the bible and I believe every word of it. I certainly do not avoid it. I know it is a priceless gift from our creator and I am not confused by it(it is his living word). Give me just 2 or 3 of these so called scriptures that I will avoid like the plague that you think will be hardest for me to explain/understand. They will only strengthen my faith.

I apologize. I didn't stop to think that someone who thinks that it is fair for a simple unbeliever to get the same eternal punishment as Hitler, Pol Pot or a serial killer would be comforted by the following passages. Please forgive my lapse in judgment.

Instances of cruel and unjust behavior by the God of the Bible are seen in even the most basic teachings of the Christian religion. Some well-known acts of the biblical God that are in fact immoral because they resulted in the suffering of the innocent include the following: he damned the whole human race and cursed the entire creation because of the acts of two people (Genesis 3:16-23; Romans 5:18); he drowned pregnant women and innocent children and animals at the time of the Flood (Genesis 7:20-23); he tormented the Egyptians and their animals with hail and disease because pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave Egypt (Exodus 9:8-11,25); he killed Egyptian babies at the time of the Passover (Exodus 12:29-30); subsequent to the Exodus he ordered the Israelites to annihilate the men, women, and children of seven nations and to steal their land (Deuteronomy 7:1-2); he killed King David's baby because of David's adultery with Bathsheba (II Samuel 12:13-18); he required the torture and murder of his own son (e.g., Romans 3:24-25); and he promised to send to eternal torture those persons who do not accept Christianity (e.g., Revelation 21:8).

In addition to the injustice and cruelties contained in many of the major teachings of Christianity, the Bible features numerous other tales of violence that are in complete opposition to all civilized standards of morality. Among the most shockingly violent and unethical Bible passages are those in which God is depicted as ordering or sanctioning the slaughter of various persons, including children and the elderly. Some examples are the following:

At I Samuel 15:3, the prophet Samuel gives King Saul this commandment from the Lord: "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Ezekiel 9:4-7 provides the following account of a message from the Lord: "And the Lord said unto him, Go through...the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark..."

Hosea 13:16 sets forth this description of a punishment from the Lord: "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

Deuteronomy 32:23-25 reports that after the Israelites had provoked the Lord to jealousy by worshiping other gods, the Lord said: "...I will spend mine arrows upon them....The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."

At Numbers chapter 31, the Lord indicates his approval of the following order which Moses gave, as set forth at verses 17 and 18, regarding the manner in which the Israelite soldiers were to treat certain women and children captured in war: "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Isaiah 13:9,15-18 contains this message from the Lord: "Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger....Every one that is found shall be thrust through. ...Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes...and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them....[T]hey shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children." Clearly, these verses depict the biblical God as having the moral scruples of a sociopathic mass murderer.

The God of the Bible also displays his sadistic tendencies by employing a variety of other methods to torment the innocent. He opens the earth so that it swallows entire families (Numbers 16:27-32); he causes fire to devour people (e.g., Leviticus 10:1-2; Numbers 11:1-2); he sends wild animals such as bears (II Kings 2:23-24), lions (II Kings 17:24-25), and serpents (Numbers 21:6) upon people; he sanctions slavery (e.g., Leviticus 25:44-46); he orders religious persecution (e.g., Deuteronomy 13:12-16); he causes cannibalism (Jeremiah 19:9); and he requires the killing of animals as expiation for the sins of their owners (e.g., Exodus 29:36).

In addition to causing the innocent to suffer, another type of cruelty that the biblical God is guilty of is the infliction of punishments that are grossly disproportionate to the acts for which those punishments were administered. In our legal system today, extreme disproportion between punishments administered and acts committed is considered a violation of the U.S. Constitution's Eighth Amendment, which prohibits cruel and unusual punishments.

Obviously, to punish persons who are completely innocent, as is seen in the preceding Bible verses, constitutes punishment that is outrageously disproportionate to the moral culpability of the persons being punished. As an additional example of the biblical God requiring punishments that are shockingly harsh in comparison to the acts committed, we may look at a list of some of the trivial acts for which he required the death penalty.

In the Old Testament, the Lord prescribes execution as punishment for the "crimes" of working on the sabbath (Exodus 31:15); cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20:9); worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 17:2-5); enticing a friend or family member to worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-10); being a witch, medium, or wizard (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27); engaging in homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13); and not being a virgin on one's wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21). Certainly, to require the death penalty for such acts is to completely reject the notion that the severity of a punishment should bear some proportion to the seriousness of the offense.

In the New Testament, the biblical God has not improved at all in regard to his trait of inflicting excessively severe punishments, and in fact has gotten worse. It would be hard to imagine anything more cruel and disproportionate than requiring the punishment of eternal torture for the mere disbelief that the son of God was born of a virgin in Palestine almost two thousand years ago, turned water into wine, cast demons out of persons, walked on water, was killed at the instigation of God's "chosen people," and rose from the dead. The refusal to believe that story harms no one, and it has been disbelieved by some of the greatest benefactors of the human race, yet the biblical God promises to inflict upon such persons the most horrible punishment that can be conceived.

A major problem with the violence and injustice contained in the Bible is that, all too often, the example set by the biblical God has incited and been used to justify the cruel acts of his followers. Many of those followers reasoned that since God, who is considered just and loving, committed and allowed the most brutal acts of violence, good Christians need not have any qualms about behaving in a similar manner. That reasoning process was undoubtedly what the American patriot Thomas Paine was referring to when he said: "The belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man."

An example of that type of reasoning is provided by the historian Joseph McCabe in his work entitled The History of Torture. McCabe states that during the Middle Ages there was more cruelty and torture in Christian Europe than in any civilization in history. He points to the Christian doctrine of eternal punishment as one of the main causes of the extraordinary prevalence of torture in medieval Europe. McCabe describes in the following manner the philosophy that supported the willingness of Christians to so frequently resort to torture: "If, it was natural to reason, God punishes men with eternal torment, it is surely lawful for men to use doses of it in a good cause."

Some specific historical examples of violent and unjust acts that were incited or supported by Bible teachings would be the Inquisition; the Crusades; the burning of witches; the religious wars in Europe; the pogroms carried out against Jewish communities; the persecution of homosexuals; the forceful conversion of heathen people in Europe and America; the enslavement of blacks and other persons; the beatings of children; the brutal treatment of the mentally ill; the suppression of scientists and other investigators of nature; the use of torture in criminal interrogations; and the whippings, mutilations, brandings, and violent executions of persons convicted of crimes. Those actions were a regular part of the Christian world for hundreds of years.

After reviewing the cruel and unjust teachings contained in the Bible, and the effect that they have had upon the course of world events, one can see why Humanists agree that Thomas Paine was entirely justified in saying in regard to the Bible: "It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it as I detest everything that is cruel."

This was taken from an essay called "Some Reasons Why Humanists Reject The Bible" by Joseph C. Sommer.

Look in the mirror and see that you have arms and legs. God expects that the first ones he gave you are proof enough.

Did you miss my point? Yes, I am fortunate to have all of my body parts. But what about those who have lost theirs to accident or injury. It seems that all the prayer in the world won't bring back a hand, a foot or half a brain lost to a gunshot to the head. Why can't God help those people?

Would God honor the martyrdom of Cassie Bernall with a full blown revival if it was a lie? I think not.

Well, if there is any truth to the police reports that were cited, it would seem so.

I believe in the Big Bang theory. God said Bang! :)

About the speaking to ghosts thing. I would suspect that it is a familiar spirit, that is a demon that has knowledge of who it is trying to represent. Demons often represent themselves as dead loved ones. If you are ever visited by the spirit of a dead person be very suspicious because it is more than likely a demon. But at least you would recognize that the spirit world is real.

Gees, I was just kidding about talking to Jefferson's ghost!!!

I see that you can not explain miracles. How about the miracle healing of that country western singer, I think her name is Naomi Judd. It was the mother who had Hepatitis and was terminally ill and medical science said she would die. She has been healed by God. She no longer has hepatitis and now she tell others about how Jesus healed her. (check it out)

It's a good thing she hadn't lost an arm, huh? I think it would still be missing don't you? Miracles are just things that happen that can't be explained at the time (There, I've explained miracles). Actually, I don't discount Naomi's faith as something that helped her through a very rough time (her faith, not God's deliverance) but as you can see from her own story below, she got a lot of help from modern science.

My Hepatitis C - Success Story by Naomi Judd

Dear Friends with Hepatitis C,

Greetings in the name of love, compassion and healing. Let me start by rattling off some of the things that are currently in the works. In 1991, when I retired from the concert stage because of Hepatitis, I started the Naomi Judd Research Fund to find a cure with $75,000. At that time the American Liver Foundation had only about $200,000 in it's account. I volunteered to be your spokesperson even though I was sick and had very little energy. This year, so far, I've helped raise over a million dollars for research. While my aim is prevention, get people to be tested, get Hepatitis B vaccines, promote organ donation awareness and tell folks how important the liver is as an organ, I primarily want to find a cure. Once a research scientist comes up with some clues it will still take a couple of years of clinical trials, FDA approval and frustrating red tape to make it available to all of us sufferers.

Last week I met with Dr. Ron Solon and Dr. Andrew Feranchak in Denver, Colorado. Dr. Feranchak is from University of Colorado Health Science Services and received a $100,000 research grant that I obtained for him to study Pediatric Hepatitis C. I spent a couple of hours networking with these leading Hepatologists. Next I flew to Los Angeles where I voluntarily made a fool of myself on Celebrity Jeopardy since Alex Trebek guaranteed me a $10,000 contribution to my fund.

This week I've been working with Dr. Bruce Bacon, who's the Medical Advisor for the American Liver Foundation, to organize a large fund raiser for his renowned research facility at the University of St. Louis on March 28th. I will be doing local TV in St. Louis on Friday the 27th, then Saturday I will be holding a press conference about Hepatitis C, keynote speaking and then meeting with the St. Louis' area Hepatitis support group. Putting together an event such as this takes weeks, if not months. I've personally hired someone to help me. I began working on the Hepatitis fund raiser during Fan Fair week here in Nashville a long time ago. Last year we raised $65,000 and this year the annual event is planned for June 14th at the Wildhorse Saloon in downtown Nashville.

On an ongoing basis, I spend personal time meeting with the leading Hepatologists all across America such as Dr. Gray Gitnick in Los Angeles who writes some of the text books on liver disease, and Dr. Milton Mulchnick in Detroit who's studying Thymosin. I've worked with Gloria Moret who has the United Liver Fund in the Los Angeles area. In addition, I go out of my way to contact the leading liver transplant surgeons such as those at Baylor Hospital in Dallas, Texas. I spend time visiting with patients who are awaiting liver transplants like Hope House in Dallas and those who have been the receivers. I do PSA's (Public Service Announcements) for the ALF and will be at the February 24, 1998 National Summit for Hepatitis C with all four Surgeon Generals. Everyday I answer letters and take calls from Hepatitis sufferers. I just recently took a fine young man named Brian Aldridge from Tupelo, Mississippi to my own church for a prayer healing with our elders.

For the record, not only have I never received a cent for the work I'm doing, but I spend lots of my own money and am hiring a woman on my personal payroll to help put together large fund raising endeavors to bring in corporate sponsors. These are just a few of the things that I'm doing presently in addition to magazine articles, newspaper interviews and lectures.

It's impossible for me to talk about Hepatitis C on shows like Letterman and Jay Leno because they're comedians and refuse to bring up disease and death on light hearted entertainment shows. I walk a very fine line between being a good talk show guest in order to be invited and trying to slip in my message on liver disease. I must be aware of the big picture and maintain my visibility.

This weekend I will be in Phoenix, Arizona doing a benefit raising money for Dr. Gladys McGarey, who 's one of the country's leaders in complimentary medicine. This fine 75-year-old woman has been a leading health activist her entire medical career. I will be the unpaid keynote speaker. I always pass out handouts with information about Hepatitis C, other resources, as well as my reading list and my recommended musical tapes.

The next week, I will be going to a seminar in South Carolina to sit at the feet of some of our country's leading health authorities, such as Dr. Joan Borysenko, a cancer cell Biologist from Harvard who is a Psychologist and a prolific author, and Dr. Bernie Siegel best-selling author of Love, Medicine and Miracles, etc. I hang out with these cutting edge researchers so that I can turn around and translate it for you and offer it to you anytime I'm given an opportunity in the media.

I take such serious responsibility in checking out anyone whom I endorse to you. I have to make personal time to meet them individually.For instance, Dr. Andrew Weil, who is a best-selling author and has a special on healing on PBS, is an MD from Harvard and has set up an integrative medicine program at the University of Arizona in Tucson. I arranged to meet with him one on one and we've become friends. I'm like an old dog, I have to sniff people out. My credibility is EVERYTHING to me. I believe in personal integrity, living authentically and as honestly as I can, day to day. My credibility is critical if I am to get public attention so I can provide you with information. I try hard to keep my own nose clean and be a Godly woman.

In case you haven't read my autobiography, Love Can Build A Bridge, in which I detail the first years after my diagnosis or if you've been living in a cave and haven't seen me on TV or read the newspaper or magazine articles, I will give you a synopsis of my medical journey the last seven years. In 1987 I was ill all the time, chronic fatigue, sense of bone weariness, low grade temperature, chronic headache and depression. I was diagnosed in 1989 with Cytomegalovirus and noticed that my ALT and AST were slightly elevated but my doctor at the time said it was just muscle strain. I knew so little about Hepatitis, I didn't give it a second thought even though I'm a registered nurse. I have never done IV drugs, have been monogamous and I've never even been drunk in my life. So it did not occur to me that I might have Hepatitis. By 1989, I was sometimes unable to get out of bed. After a concert I would literally fall on to my bed on Wynonna's and my bus in my stage outfit and high heels and fall into a deep sleep. No one had ever seen me even have a cold so everybody around me new something was wrong. I finally was told in January of 1990 that I did have Hepatitis but was informed that it was non A and non B. I received one of the first Hepatitis C tests that had just been approved at that time by the FDA. After several testings I was told that I was negative for Hepatitis C. This was by a prestigious medical institution. I was then treated for the next five years by another well known medical facility in Nashville. The doctors, even though they knew I was the spokesperson for the ALF failed to tell me that the original Hepatitis C test was inferior and the FDA had replaced it with a more sensitive, more accurate one.

For 5 years I fell through the crack, even though I was getting tested for LFTs every month, I was correctly diagnosed with Hepatitis C in 1994. This should be a clear warning to you that you must get involved in your own health. My only insurance comes from the Screen Actors Guild. I'm dependent on it and cannot get any other insurance because of my diagnosis now. My first round of interferon in 1990 produced some of the worst side effects on my medical record. I'm a very fragile person physically and am hypersensitive to any medication. But I stuck with the alpha interferon by ROCHE and after six months my ALT hovered around one hundred. It was considered a success.

It was life style changes in my personal voyage of self discovery that led me to wholeness and healing. My faith, my experience with complimentary therapies, my family and my friends, my sense of purpose in helping others, etc., have served me well in the last seven years. My first few liver biopsies were not good and I was not pleased with my Doctors. I finally found Dr. Right in 1996. He immediately put me on the Scherring-Plough Intron (3 million units, 3 times a week) which I gave myself injections in my abdomen. My side effects were so severe I was once rushed to the emergency room in the middle of the night. Yet it was important to me to step out in faith, pray the answer instead of the problem, live beyond my immediate physical circumstances and strive to be a ray of hope for you. Somehow with God's grace I've kept going. I was fully aware that anytime I was in public, whether it was on TV or seen walking down a street that your eyes were on me. I've tried to send you a clear message that "miracles happen where there is love" and that we're all in this together. I have financial responsibilities, must take care of myself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. My family worries that I spend too much time and energy on this cause. I was on Zoloft for depression while on interferon because of it's biochemical effect on serotonin levels. I conquered my serious panic attacks.

In May of 1997 when I came off of my last year long regimen of interferon, my LFTs were within normal range. The pathology report on my latest liver biopsy was improved. One of the most important things I can do for you is to keep myself healthy so that I have enough energy and clear mindedness to fight our battle. I also owe it to myself and my family to stay healthy. I want to be a living, breathing testimony for you about Hepatitis remission. I want you to know that you can not only survive but thrive. I have always believed that in life, what I am is more important than anything I say. But the primary reason I am doing all that I do is because I have a contract with God. I feel a personal accountability to Him to grow in love and wisdom and be of service. My deeply held philosophy is that service is the work of the soul. It's the reason we're all here on this earth.

I know that there is nothing different or special about me. I believe that I've been given whatever visibility or opportunities I might have today to reach out and encourage you and take you to a higher level. You're smarter than you think you are. You are stronger than you know. Stop and think about the diseases that killed us a hundred years ago, Typhoid, Polio, Pneumonia, common tooth ache, Diphtheria, Tetanus. Now realize because of our commitment, in the near future, today's deadly diseases like Hepatitis, Aids and Cancer will also be passe. Only you know what you're doing to be part of our solution. I encourage you to cling to hope.

I may not know your name or your face, but I know you're out there. I know your pain. I know your fears. I know your sorrow. I'm fighting the same battle you are.

Still in one peace,

Naomi Judd

Also, it appears that Naomi is raising more money for medical research than for miracles. So it doesn't look as though she is relying totally on God for her health or the health of other people with hepatitis C.

Another school shooting today. This is very sad. I hope that they soon realize they need the 10 commandments and Jesus in school so the devil will go away. Foolish law makers think Gun laws even matter. They wont stop dying tell Jesus goes back to school. Only God can stop the moral decay in the public schools and on college campuses. Evil is in the heart of man and only God can change that. We as a notion must REPENT! I pray that God will use this tragedy for his glory and many will turn to him because of this. Come Holy Spirit and bring revival to the young people of this nation. In Jesus name. AMEN!

BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

BIBLE is good but how about "EVANGALISTS". Rearrange the letters and get "Evil's Agents". Cute, huh?

Anyway, since God created evil and the devil just seems only to go along with what God wants (read Job again sometime), I suspect the current state of affairs is just the way God wants it. Too bad.

By the way, have you forgotten my original question about Heaven or is it easier to continually go off on tangent?

Happy flyin'

Max

----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Ehlis To: Max Bishop Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:41 PM Subject: Re: Regarding: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

The wages of sin is death. We are all guilty of sin. I know God destroyed whole civilizations for sin. Yes homosexuality, witch craft, worshiping false god's, sex outside of the marriage relationship. I think you are starting to realize God's wrath in response to wickedness. He cursed all of us to die and it was a just judgment. If you think one sin is worse than the other in God's eye you are missing the point. Timothy McKay can accept Jesus and go straight to Heaven and I hope he makes it(I pray for him). We are so defiled compared to God it does not riley mater what sins or how many we committed. Actually the ones who think they are better than others I believe are in the most trouble, the ones who think they are "good people" when compared to God their righteousness is as filthy rags. I stay humble before God and I understand that I would receive the same eternal damnation as Hitler without Jesus. We receive total absolution when we accept Jesus atoning death as the payment required by God. Essentially we get off scoot free when we come under the blood, but we must also forgive the sins others have committed against us. The sin debt we owe God is huge compared to any debt one man owes another. God says I will forgive the 100 million you owe me if you forgive the 5 dollars your neighbor owes you. Jesus paid the price that we could never repay. God has given us a guaranteed way to get back with him because he loves us unconditionally that is why he will forgive any body for anything. We do not escape physical death (actually the rapture will allow many to escape physical death) but we can escape spiritual death and that is what is important. I am actually excited about going to spend eternity with Jesus. God loves me so much that he was willing to literally become guilty of my sin and the sins of everybody ells and hang on a cross to pay my debt because I could not pay it. God dying for me. It is a love that is beyond anything one could experience in this world.

God is just in all of his judgments including me and you dying.

I do not know the treasures that await those who spend eternity with the Lord, but this is a fallen and cursed world full of sin and wickedness so one can only imagine a place illuminated with the perfect glory of God. A real paradise much better then this world but I would guess that in some ways it is also similar because God made them both.

I have at least gotten a small taste of hell and it is terrible horrible place. you can be tortured forever and never die. please don't go their because heaven is a free gift of God's grace.

The scriptures you sent me show how incredible God's grace is because he saved a wretch like me from eternal judgment. You should see by now how futile it is to be just in god's eyes. The only way you can be just in God's eye is to get under the blood and then he will see his crucified sun and say "your debt is payed".

This discushion has given me some ideas on how to explain God and his word to my children. Thank you for this time of Bible study and reflection on our God's grace.

He did it out of love because God is totally just but also totally loving and merciful.

----- Original Message ----- From: Max Bishop To: Ryan Ehlis Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Regarding: Tell me what the Bible says about heaven please.

Dear Ryan,

I guess it's lucky for me (and Tim McVeigh, too) that God doesn't exist, huh?

Not good for you though!

I bet you were really counting on that lakeside seat (lake of fire?) where, with hot dog and soft drink in hand, you and your angelic friends could watch billions of unrepentent sinners burn in Hell. Of course, you may have assumed that Heaven would have cable so you just sit on cloud nine and channel surf between different types of torture and wouldn't have needed to be too close to the action. Merciful God, it's so sad that you'll miss out on such a great entertainment opportunity.

Try not to be afraid though. Life without God can be really good if you let it.

Happy flyin'

Max

PS: Thanks for finally answering my question about Heaven.

In his last email to me, it sounded like Ryan was ending the discussion so I didn't make a point by point reply. I was right. After sending him my last message, I never heard from him again.

I hope what I said to Ryan hasn't bothered you too much. But, after getting so many Christian messages surrounding the terrorist attacks, I just could contain myself and had to say something.

Sometimes, like with Ryan, when people discover that my point of view is contrary to theirs and that I am just as insistent as they are at expressing it, they begin to avoid me. Maybe some Christians aren't quite as Christian as think or they say they are. ;-)

If I've offended you, I hope you'll forgive me.